Photo courtesy of BikeSkills

Joe Lawwill

Editor's Note: Thanks to Bikeskills.com for the interview with Joe...

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During more than a decade as a professional mountain bike racer, BikeSkills’ instructor Joe Lawwill stood at the top of many podiums, including one that earned him the title of Masters Downhill World Champion in 2002. Along the way, he learned a great deal about professional sports in general, as well as the business and the lifestyle aspects of mountain biking in particular. In the interview below, Joe takes a break from teaching the art and science of mountain biking and shares his thoughts, observations, and opinions about being a pro.

From Cross Training to Career

Bikeskills: How did you get started in biking? When did you become passionate about it?

Joe: Being the son of a successful professional motorcycle racer I was exposed to two wheels from the very beginning. However as a little kid I never liked all the motorcycle noise which made bicycles much more appealing to me. Plus bmx was a pretty big deal where I lived. The local bike shop "The Cove Bike Shop" was a hotbed of hot BMX bikes. I had many friends to ride with and even had a local track within riding distance from my house. They held races there during the summer for a number of years. Although I realize now I lacked many skills at the time I was one of the fastest kids my age on a BMX bike. I rode my bike to school as soon as my mom would let me, and I would stop by the track on my way home pretty much every day and ride for hours with my friends. Eventually as I got bigger and the local bmx track got a paved bicycle path down the middle of it I stopped riding altogether. Plus my dad came home with a motorcycle one day that seemed a lot more fun than pedaling my bike everywhere. I eventually got involved in motorcycle racing and throughout high school I was racing motocross almost every weekend.

Due to the dwindling number of riding areas here in Marin, the driving required to practice and race took its toll on me. In an attempt to cut down on driving time and still get related training in I took up mountain biking. It didn't’t hurt at the time that my dad was getting involved with bicycle pioneer Gary Fisher to make one of the first full suspension mountain bikes ever. My dad has a long history of designing motorcycle frames and parts as well as building the first ever mass produced mountain bike the "Pro Cruiser" back in 1977. With my dad working with Gary that meant there were many odd looking full suspension bikes in our garage. These bikes with full suspension really got me interested in mountain biking, but the real turning point in terms of my committing to mountain biking was meeting a local 1st year pro downhiller who later went on to win the World Championships in downhill. He took me for a ride, and when I saw what he could do on a mountain bike I was awestruck.

Bikeskills: Did you have plans or ideas for another career other than in the biking industry?

Joe: During high school all I wanted to do was be a professional motocross racer. Ending up in the bicycle industry sort of just happened. I’ve always tried to remain flexible and open. Things change and you need to be able to adapt when they do.

Bikeskills: How did your own personal career as a professional biker and teacher evolve?

Joe: I was on the path of becoming a pro motocrosser and really had no intentions to become a professional mountain biker. I was only riding mountain bikes because I thought it was good cross training and I had access to some really cool bikes. Oh, and it was a lot of fun!

Becoming a pro mountain biker came about because of a local race at Hollister Hills I went to with that local pro who showed me what was possible on a bike. I signed up as expert. Everyone rode the same course. After it was all said and done it turned out I had the fastest time of the day. That meant I beat all the pros including the local pro! But winning that race wasn't the turning point. It was the phone call I got the next day from Gary Fisher. He basically asked me if I would like to go on the moutainbike circuit and represent Gary Fisher bicycles. He offered me $6,000 as a salary and $8,000 to cover expenses. At the time I was working full time just so I could afford to drive to the motocross races. I figured what the heck and said ok to his offer. If the mountain bike thing didn't pan out I would just go back to motocross. I was still pretty young and felt giving up a summer would be ok.

Once on the circuit I totally fell in love with the lifestyle. I did better and better every race and before I knew it I was a full time pro mountain biker. Each year I made more and more money until around 1999 when I took my first pay cut. Even though my results were better than ever, mountain bike companies were dramatically reducing their racing budgets: I went from making roughly $50,000 in 1998 to less than half the next year. Still, I was totally committed to racing mountain bikes. I stuck it out hoping things would change. They didn’t. In fact they got worse. For the next three years I was earning roughly $10,000 per year as a world-class professional. I wasn’t making a real living anymore, and it certainly wasn’t a living that was consistent with how hard we trained, the risks we were taking, or the brutal travel schedules we were forced to deal with. I realized I would have to do other things.

About the time I was thinking of what to do next, my friend, Rob Howard, came to me with a proposal to teach his buddies how to ride better. At first I wasn’t really interested but once I got out there it was a lot of fun watching these guys progress so quickly, plus the money was good. So ever since then I have been putting on clinics that people really seemed to benefit from.

Bikeskills: How much do you have to train to be a downhill/free rider?

Joe: If you want to be a professional you have to dedicate your life to it. You eat, sleep, and dream mountain biking. If you don’t you’re both wasting your time and literally risking your life. Most of my injuries came from not being prepared either physically or mentally. When it’s time to race– or perform at a world-class level– you’re either capable or not. You have to realize that what prepares you is physical and mental training, not some "Go for it" attitude. That kind of attitude – without dedicated training –will land you in the hospital.

"Free Riding" on the other hand, is both overused and all too often a type of riding that does little to improve racing skills or relationships with anyone other than the staff at emergency rooms and orthopedic surgeons. In fact, some of the freeriding events, I don’t know what to make of them: are those guys riding mountain bikes, or just happen to be on mountain bikes when they fling themselves off cliffs? The bottom line is that some of those events are not only dangerous to the people competing in them, they’re dangerous to our sport because they make professional mountain bikers look stupid and irresponsible, not like the highly conditioned, trained athletes we are.

It’s a living...

Bikeskills: Can you support yourself as a professional mountain biker? Could you support a family?

Joe: That’s a tough question to answer. But for the most part, the answer is no. But let me qualify that answer. First off, you have to think in terms of "most professionals" engaged in a given area. For example, we know that most doctors can support themselves and a family, as can most engineers and attorneys. That is not the case with "most" professional mountain bikers. There, the term "professional" refers to the level of skills and the theory that you get paid to ride. The truth is that probably less than 10% of all professional mountain bikers can support themselves without "other" income and my guess is that only 1% or 2% of the pros could support a family with their racing derived incomes. Add that to the fact that many professional mountain bikers start racing when they stop going to school and have short careers, and you can see the long-term financial stability of a professional mountain biker is not good.

I’ll tell you what will support a family, and that’s what you learn – not earn – from becoming a professional mountain biker. Things like dedication, discipline, delayed gratification, giving something your all — not for money or even recognition, but simply being the best you’re able to be. Those ways of thinking and acting will help anyone achieve whatever they set their sights on.

BikeSkills.com: What are other types of jobs/careers for a person who wants to be involved in mountain biking?

Joe: There are some mountain bike industry jobs out there but these days just having a successful racing career does not mean you have the skills to get a good paying job at a bike company. Keep in mind that successful mountain biking companies are first and foremost successful businesses. With that in mind, any professional with a solid education and real skills can find jobs in the field. Not many, and in some cases the equivalent job in mountain biking might pay a little less than the one down the street at a high tech company, but if you love bikes, then a bit less money might be a reasonable trade-off. In terms of positions that offer the best pay and the most flexibility in case you want to – or need to – find a job in another industry, engineering (particularly mechanical engineering), accounting, and law are your best bets. Another area that appears to be more important – and better paying – within the bicycle industry is international manufacturing, procurement, and contract negotiations. That’s an area for people with MBAs and second language skills.

This doesn’t mean that you still don’t find former racers, mechanics, etc. at many bike companies, just that they don’t have the mobility and chances for advancement that they once had: again, even the coolest mountain biking company has to be a well run, expertly staffed business.

BikeSkills.com: Which type of biking is more profitable? Is it easier to go pro/sponsored or work in another aspect of the biking industry?

Joe: If you mean which type of mountain biking, the answer is that none of the areas are "profitable" as you put it. But profitable is probably not the word you’re looking for. Profit is from the perspective of the business owner, in this case, the bicycle company that employs the racer. In fact, they’re the ones that have determined that mountain bike racing and the racers are "profitable" for them hence the rapidly declining salaries.

In other words, in order to be profitable, if a bike company spends let’s say $1 million on its racing efforts, then it needs to earn more than that $1 million to make a profit on its investment. And that doesn’t mean $1 million in additional sales, but profits, which are only a small part of what the typical bike is sold for, roughly about 20%. What that means is that unless the company sells some $5 million more bikes, it’s not making a profit on that particular use of funds.

In the case of mountain biking, over time, the companies that were paying for mountain bike racing determined that it wasn’t profitable: they weren’t selling more bicycles. The issue of why mountain bike racing isn’t profitable or if it even could be is complex but it comes down to some basic economics: only 1% of all mountain bikers either race or plan to, there are no stadiums where people pay to watch mountain bike racing, there are no television revenues from mountain biking, and there’s very little "logo" wear sold as is the case with other professional sports like baseball, basketball, or even NASCAR racing.

But if you’re really asking about "earnings potential" from a racer’s perspective, there are two things to consider: the total amount of money available and the number of professional riders competing for it. It would be easy to point out that the top European road team riders make a lot of money – some in the millions of dollars per year – but you also have to consider that there are far more professional road riders all looking for something – that coveted big time pro contract – that’s about as likely as winning the lottery. So by and large, the odds are stacked against you if you’re trying to make a living riding a bike; unless of course its being a bike messenger and then you’ve got other problems to deal with!

As far as other industries "related" to biking, you’re pretty much talking about any industry. For example, Dave Grimes is the owner of ODI, a SoCal based firm that makes very cool mountain bike products like grips that won’t come loose no matter what. Mr. Grimes and his company also make parts and products for industries that range from aerospace to the medical world.

In the end, Grimes and company are a group of experts in the area of injection molding. The same is true for companies like Easton that make everything from camping poles to baseball bats to the tube sets that most high-end bikes are made from. The people at these companies get to be "involved" with mountain bikes and the culture – all the good stuff - while having what is called "diversification" to ensure their businesses do well no matter what happens to the mountain biking or cycling markets.

BikeSkills.com: How hard is it to start up a new biking company? What does it take?

Joe: If you’re coming into the market with nothing more than a handful of ideas and your only real experience is being able to ride a bike, forget it. You won’t have a chance. If you have a masters degree in business and were the valedictorian at a great university, can ride a bike and have a huge trust fund, I’d give you about a 50-50 chance of making it a couple of years and less than one in ten of surviving any longer than that.

Seriously, the bicycle industry has always been tough, probably because bikes are so fun and so many people want to get in to it. From the outside, it looks pretty easy. Over the years people ranging from burnt out racers to billionaires like Sam Zell – who bought Schwinn – have taken their shots at running bike companies. The thing that most of them have in common is their love of all things cycling. My guess is that within three years, 90% of them fail as was the case with real estate investment genius Mr. Zell and countless sharp business people like him.

The secret to starting a successful bike or bike-related company is this: identifying and tapping into demand. The converse – what to avoid – is thinking that you will create or drive a market because your product is so cool, advanced or important because you think it is. ODI’s grips solves a problem – slipping grips cause safety and control problems – and ODI’s products were able to tap in to the demand of people wanting their grips to stay put. It’s really that simple.

Living the life...

Bikeskills: Do you still ride for fun and excitement, or has it become more of a job these days?

Joe: The only time biking felt like a job was when I was forced to race when I had nagging injuries that should have been healing. There’s something very wrong about sponsors and teams pressuring riders to race no matter what. Then again, there’s something wrong with the riders doing so. In the end, it’s the nature of the beast. Professional athletes have a warrior mentality: they don’t stop fighting, trying, giving it their all just because they are injured, because that is not the nature of war and conflict. Somehow, as a professional athlete you need to reconcile that as important as doing your best is, if you don’t take care of yourself, you could end up with injuries that degenerate and end up resulting in life-long disabilities.
But with the intense "do or die" days more or less behind me, I’m back to being able to love riding bikes.

Bikeskills: Is racing as fun as it sounds, or does it get old and burned out?

I would say it depends on the individual. I am very competitive and love a challenge. So for me, I love the challenge of racing and thus love racing mountain bikes. Others find competing stressful and unfulfilling. For them, not only is racing not fun, but many find themselves burnt out on the sport they once loved. Ask former professional baseball players, motorcycle racers, etc. and you’ll find people in both camps: ones who still go to all the games, events, and are up on what’s going on in the sport and others who want to change the subject as soon as you bring up their former glory days.
The bottom line is racing is a lot of fun if and only if the life of a professional athlete fits with who and what you are.

Bikeskills: As a pro rider, what do you do for the sponsoring companies?

Joe: First and foremost I must represent their products in a professional manner. That means not only do I have to conduct myself on and off the race track in a way that projects a positive image, but I have to believe in the products as well. I’m not sure every rider feels that way about his or her sponsors, but I do. It comes down to a partnership between the sponsors and me. While they may be paying me, I’m out there earning it, sometimes risking my life in the process. If both sides – the rider and the sponsor – take that seriously, you have the potential for a great, long term relationship.
Beyond ensuring that I’m always prepared to do my best out there, I always try to project a positive image and attitude, and I make myself available to talk to fans and other riders about the products I use. People often need information to make an informed decision about the bikes and components, and who better to ask than the people who depend on them to make their livings? I do my best to make sure I know as much as I can about the bikes I ride, the components on those bikes, even the protective gear I wear. This allows me to act as a highly influential source of information for my sponsors’ products.

The other important contribution I make to my sponsors is product feedback. Being a second generation professional racer and developer of racing products, I know how important rider and racer feedback is to creating superior products. You can have all the engineers and fabricators in the world, but unless you have someone out there telling them how what they made really works, superior products won’t result. It’s no different than what you see happening with test pilots and the engineers: the test pilot goes out there and puts a new design through its flight envelope. But when something goes wrong, breaks, or doesn’t work quite right, it’s up to the test pilot – not the engineers or scientists – to bring both the airplane and that information back to the base. The best professional racers do virtually the same thing for their sponsors.

Bikeskills: Do they give you free complete bikes or only some parts? Do they offer things like health benefits? Are some companies better to ride for than others?

Joe: Free is not the right word to use. Sponsors supply product as compensation for your services. As far as what they give you, it depends on how valuable you are to them. Remember, in the end its business for them, and for you (the racer) too.

As far as what you "get," once again it all comes down to basic economics: how many people are you and your efforts exposed to? How positively are you perceived? What is the actual effect you have on those people (do they go out and buy the product you use and endorse)? Does the company feel that you present them in a way that reflects what they want as their image?

These days – right or wrong – bicycle companies have concluded that because so few people race or watch races and there’s virtually no televised mountain bike racing, that the economic reasons to pay mountain bike racers just aren’t there. It’s sort of an algebraic equation: you can project the greatest image possible and be a great spokesperson for a company, but if no one watches the racers, the activity doesn’t help sell more bikes. It’s kind of like multiplication times zero …

Another thing you have to always keep in mind as a professional racer is where you stand with your sponsors. As brutal as it sounds, you’re both better off and better prepared if you realize that you’re sponsors are always thinking "what have you done for me lately?" The job of any professional racer is to win races – lots of them. If you either hit a slump in your performance, or your career is winding down, you need to either step it up or get ready to step out and in to whatever comes next in your career.

Bikeskills.com: What’s the range of annual income pro-riders make? What about bikers who go into other aspects of the biking industry, such as manufacturing parts or opening bike shops?

Joe: Professional mountain bike racers make between nothing and around $60,000 a year. Racers that make over $10,000 probably make up about 5% of the total. By and large, being a "professional mountain biker" relates to your level of skill, not income …

As far as what other professions make within the bike industry, it’s what’s referred to as "supply and demand." Most of the jobs, unfortunately, are low-paying because the skills and education levels required are very low as well as the fact that many people want to work for a bike shop, bike manufacturer, even if for a short time.

On the other hand, when it comes down to highly technical positions or positions that require advanced education, licenses, etc. then you’ll find – especially at the best bike companies – that equivalent jobs and careers pay roughly equivalent compensation. Earlier I mentioned careers like mechanical engineering, CPAs (certified public accountants), etc.

There’s no real way to estimate what bike shop owners make. My guess is that most people get into the business because they love bikes. That’s probably the single worst reason to get in to the bike business if you don’t have both the skills and mindset necessary to operate a retail business in a cutthroat environment. In other words, people like Clay Mankin, the founder and owner of City Cycle in San Francisco, do very well because they run great businesses that just happen to sell bikes. People that have shops that are dirty, don’t have a good selection of products, or, worse yet, have rude, poorly trained staff, will do poorly – no matter how cool they think they are.

Bikeskills: What are the long-term health problems associated with being a downhiller or free rider?

Joe: A great deal depends on you being smart, and luck. As the son of a professional motorcycle racer I saw many racers sustain serious injuries. Over the years I saw how those injuries compounded and eventually limited what those people could do, including simple things like walking! I’ve always worked hard to be a fluid, finesse rider as opposed to someone that tosses their bike and body in the fray and hopes for the best. That kind of attitude – in time – will lead to serious injuries.

Bikeskills: Are all the bikers friends with one another or is there a lot of competition between you that limits your friendship or gets you into arguments?

Joe: By and large, most of the pros are friends. We ride together and spend time together after and outside of racing. As mountain bikers we seem to have similar interests, lifestyles, and enjoy one another’s company. Plus when you are a pro rider you will see especially as you get older that most of your friends are not around during the day when you are. So if you want to hang around people they most likely need to be doing what your doing – training/riding/racing. Also, I have noticed that many of my 8 to 5 friends all want to go out and party on the weekends which is not very conducive to being a professional racer. Not only is the bar atmosphere not that healthy, but you end up staying up late and not getting the sleep you need. Professional athletes need more sleep than most people. Also racing starts early in the morning, so staying up late really does not work out well.

Bikeskills: To a young person who loves downhill riding, what advice would you give them? Is it something that would be better pursued just as a hobby, or do you think there’s enough potential to go for it?

Joe: It’s not so much that I strongly discourage anyone to try and make a living at mountain bike racing, rather that they examine their motives and expectations, as well as the reality of being able to do so. nIf you want to become dedicated to a sport and feel that by competing you’ll learn more about yourself and enjoy the process, then you’ll be both successful and likely accomplish your goals and objectives. If, on the other hand, you think you’re going to impress lots of people or make a lot of money, you’ll most likely be both disappointed and put yourself in a bad position both educationally and financially … which may be one in the same these days.

But there’s one piece of advice I can give a young person who loves downhill mountain biking, cross country mountain biking, surfing, or any sport or hobby and it’s this: if you develop your education, skills, and talents in areas where there are great opportunities, you’ll have more time and opportunities to ride, run, ski, surf, etc, when and where you want, on what equipment, and with whom you want to do it with.